I had a similar experience. With my daughter. I've been unable to interest or irritate her into reading more than basic headlines. Don't get me wrong. She knows who Trump and Giuliani etc are, and what they've done and why they're on trial. What she hadn't done is VOTE. This year will be different. She's seen and read about the people th…
I had a similar experience. With my daughter. I've been unable to interest or irritate her into reading more than basic headlines. Don't get me wrong. She knows who Trump and Giuliani etc are, and what they've done and why they're on trial. What she hadn't done is VOTE. This year will be different. She's seen and read about the people that are suffering untold miseries because of Maga bullshit in Congress, too and countrywide. Her understanding of the past is less than mine. But finally, FINALLY she sees the threat to her friends and family. And now she's mad. Now she will vote. And now she's beginning to be involved in democracy because now she knows people who are being denied aspects of it which she hasn't been denied.......YET. I hope she continues to learn. I feel the way to talk to those ignorant of so much of this is, as I've said before, to talk to people about what they need or feel is withheld from them or people they care about. Anywhere we can chat with people, we need to ask questions and listen to the answers. And....we need to know how Biden and Dems have been striving to and have improved so much. Point to where the positive changes are happening. Then listen some more.
Even just a state ID - which is administered through the DMV. With the current address info on file the State mails us our voter registration cards and when the time comes our Voters Pamphlet to study and our ballots to mail in or drop in a conveniently located ballot box. It should be the National standard. That and one person, one vote. Period.
In many places, it is. But registering to vote isn't the same as becoming an educated voter. It's the effort to engage and educate voters that needs work, as Joyce's experience highlights.
This helps explain why the SCOTUS decision in Dobbs has been such a game-changer in some very surprising places. I was a little surprised at first, wondering "Didn't people know what was at stake, and that Supreme Court decisions can be overturned?" Well, no, and it wasn't hard to figure out why: for most women Roe had been "settled law" (whatever that means) their whole adult lives, and maybe their whole lives, period. The same goes for the sense of possibility that many of us had in the 1960s and '70s, before the Reagan reaction shut it down. We've got work to do!
I still hear that doctors are having to tell patients “Sorry, no, I can’t refer you to an abortion clinic, the law has changed.” How people can still not realize this is truly baffling to me, but then so is supporting 45, so 🤦♀️
These stupid legislators passing legislation restricting abortion when they hardly have any idea how pregnancy works. It's virtually impossible to fix stupid. Most people don't appreciate how politics impacts their lives until something happens to them or someone they love.
No kidding. And you're right, it's "virtually impossible to fix stupid," and given gerrymandering (and Fox "News") it's just as hard to keep it out of statehouses and Congress.
This suggests that those patients aren't aware of the general situation in their red states -- or that "politics" has anything to do with their personal lives. Arrgghh!
IF Hilary Clinton had won, and we had voted for HER, our Supreme Court would not be in the conservative mess it is in now. Hilary would never have appointed the conservative justices we have to put up with. Voting has consequences! NEVER forget and get informed! VOTE Blue!
A religious door knocker was all about the "future of my soul" and when I asked if he VOTED...NO! Why not? The decisions we make NOW affect our future, here on earth! VOTE! Eternal life is another future to deal with.
We were just traveling thru The Netherlands, Germany & France. Eye opening in many ways, but realized just how ignorant most Americans are about history. Even young people we spoke to can explain what happened before, during & after WWII. In Germany, they start teaching about the Holocaust in 7th grade! We saw mostly young people touring the Anne Frank House. They can tell you just what happened to their countries because of fascism, ignorance, hatred & fear. They wondered how people here cannot see the danger we are in. It’s called willful ignorance. The dumbing down of our educational system. It’s our own fault for allowing it! We HAVE TO STOP IT! Speak out & educate everyone you can with FACTS!
That's the point. I've always believed "the dumbing down of America" was done on purpose and it eventually led to this. Facts are losing at this point. Ruth Ben-Ghiat says people don't see authoritarianism coming. Those people have their heads in the sand or are watching murdoch et al (including the WSJ and I still won't touch that (sorry if I offended anyone).
As a high school student in Wisconsin in 1984 we learned about WWII and the Holocaust first hand with a visit to Dachau Concentration Camp Memorial near Munich. We were studying German language and traveling for 2 weeks to learn about the country and its history. We crossed through Check Point Charlie into East Berlin, and walked near both sides of The Berlin Wall that separated West and East Berlin. It was an experience that lives with me to this day. And part of the reason that I am deeply interested in Politics and understanding what good government can do for citizens. Also the importance of the US on the world stage and how we should lead for peace.
I was blessed with an opportunity that so few young people have these days. People can read things in books, be shown videos, but there is nothing like walking the streets and experience life first hand to help you understand the impact and importance of learning history
Carol, I'm grateful you grew up in a district with a good educational foundation! We moved to the Sheboygan area 8 yrs ago from IL - the educational levels in our area seem less than...stellar. Just curious if you feel the commitment to your former school system is what it used to be.
This is the first Carol, DL. I grew up & lived most of my life in Illinois. I attended Catholic schools & public universities. American & World history were always covered & discussed. I actually did my college thesis about the Holocaust. I am not Jewish. I now live in Arizona & am mortified at the lack of basic education & almost complete lack of world knowledge. It is frightening. It also explains the choices made by so many uneducated voters here, of all ages.
Carol C., you gave me a scare that I'd responded to the wrong Carol (age, poor sight and coffee ineffectiveness can do that to you)!
Agree 100% on the state of current education, everywhere. It's insidious; generations not knowing what they've missed because they aren't aware it it.
On the flip side, Joyces' observation made me realize/appreciate how effective algorithms are in shaping perceptions of what's going on in the world, plus the resultant reactions.
After graduating with an engineering degree from a UW System college, I had a 30+ year career with a US based global manufacturer and moved to Illinois. I still have family roots in Wisconsin and am active on advisory boards at my Alma mater. I have been disappointed with what I have observed as a failure to fund the K-12 education properly to provide the same level of opportunity that was available during my formative years.
Like Carol C, I now live in AZ where I am appalled by the starvation of funding for public education. We are seeing the negative returns due to the lack of prioritizing funding for our public schools.
I think Gov Evers and Hobbs understand this, but the GOP control of the legislatures doesn't get it. It's sad.
When I arrived in Europe as a young 19-year-old Marine (in 1972!) I quickly learned the average French/German/Austrian graduate knew more about the U.S than many of my friends back home. I was in Europe last summer and the same is true. Very sobering. We really do have to figure out how to correct this problem.
I should add that in most of my intro US history classes, and this was a good Catholic university, about half my students had a good civics background - and about half did not know about the three branches of government (they thought the president was over the Congress), and did not know much about Senators and Representatives. They did not know about their respective terms and they did not know who their senators and representative were. After asking a bit, I learned that the biggest problem was moving in high school - it used to be they all had the same thing in high school and you could just switch a couple of courses to get it right - but now high schools can be radically different. Most had never had a course in the US before the Civil War (which they didn’t know much about anyway).
Mimi Champlin, ask your daughter if her social media feed has people saying that they will not vote for anyone over forty. My granddaughter said thirty, and I had to remind her that Presidential candidates must be thirty five. She’s in her early twenties , and doesn’t realize that the “Don’t trust anyone over thirty” mantra was begun in the Sixties. It led to Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. Her high school doesn’t offer a Civics class. Nor did they cover past skimming over WWII in American History class. We are reaping the harvest of not teaching what makes the United States great.
Hi Rigel. My daughter doesn't use social media since, geez, probably four or five years ago? She reads blogs about photography and various physical challenges she deals with, does NYT games and downloads sci fi kindle books. She became disgusted with "people on the internet" quite a while ago.
She's not traditional in her group thought, actually, but overwhelmed in life by how much is going on at all times. The internet intensified that, so she cut it out and takes it in specific bites (bytes).
She's fast approaching 50. Just so you understand her context. Her grammar schools and high school were also different, as well as her college, so I cannot say that she was surrounded in the ways people usually are. lol Her early schools were Montessori and her high school was a private school in the mountains in California, very strict requirements for grade averages to stay, and her college was St John, a four year college that automatically has two majors and two minors (she even learned by requirement to speak and write Olde English as well as Attic Greek.) Extreme critical thinking was the result by dint of how they teach what they teach.
So, long story short, while she has always had friends in and out of school, they've been from families who wanted a more rounded education for their kids (I am not nor have ever been a "hippie" although I preceeded that by a bit, but I never much liked packs of anything....dogs....kids...."patriots"....)
The early years had a high emphasis on imagination mixed with discovering physical truths within that....example....look at the pictures of the ocean...now you draw them.....while you are drawing can you find the "C" shape in the pictures and put it somewhere in your drawing? (kindergarten and first grade).
I must also credit Sesame Street for her extreme early use of language and INCESSANT TALKING OMG IT'S A WONDER I SURVIVED (smiling and laughing).
I have to encase these descriptions with the fact that she was, is and always has been an absolutely average student with undiagnosed (until adulthood) adhd, so, not a whiz bang by any means. I could only afford her college and high school because #1 she won scholarships and at her high school she was a "legacy" so her dad having been there got her in, while she and I paid and worked for it. Her efforts, again, working for scholarships, paid for most of what I could not. She and I made a deal early on, I'd work my ass off in the world, she'd work her ass of in school. We both kept our promise. This is what *I* think of as the American Way. I didn't go to more than one semester of college due to social unrest and soldiers in the cafeteria of SF State before my first semester was credited. Family strife blew up any normal expectation of schooling so I went to work and did everything I could. Rarely had fewer than three jobs. This is where my views and experiences come from, just so you know who I am, a bit. I UTTERLY AGREE that the loss of history and civics in schools is a disaster. We need to correct that for everyone, ourselves included if we are also lacking! Thanks for listening. I sort of couldn't stop typing.
I did too, but with my son. Although he knows about Trump, Giuliani, etc., he is not inclined to vote blue because Democrats have a real problem with younger voters. They don't think the economy is any better. (Yes they are a privileged sort.) There is nothing for them in the next election. They aren't concerned about women's rights. They have looked at Gaza and hate that we are killing innocent civilians by supporting Israel. They just don't trust Biden or Trump or either party.
The approach of speaking out has not worked for me over the past several years. I’ve been sending articles, many from Substack posts, to my MAGA friends & family to no avail whatsoever. The response I get is lack of interest and/or the misinformation spouted by Fox News programs. I’ve been blocked by some on social media and even add relationships ended when I’ve discussed our current political situation and the threat to our democracy. I’ve about given up.
I had a similar experience. With my daughter. I've been unable to interest or irritate her into reading more than basic headlines. Don't get me wrong. She knows who Trump and Giuliani etc are, and what they've done and why they're on trial. What she hadn't done is VOTE. This year will be different. She's seen and read about the people that are suffering untold miseries because of Maga bullshit in Congress, too and countrywide. Her understanding of the past is less than mine. But finally, FINALLY she sees the threat to her friends and family. And now she's mad. Now she will vote. And now she's beginning to be involved in democracy because now she knows people who are being denied aspects of it which she hasn't been denied.......YET. I hope she continues to learn. I feel the way to talk to those ignorant of so much of this is, as I've said before, to talk to people about what they need or feel is withheld from them or people they care about. Anywhere we can chat with people, we need to ask questions and listen to the answers. And....we need to know how Biden and Dems have been striving to and have improved so much. Point to where the positive changes are happening. Then listen some more.
I believe voter registration should be linked directly to obtaining a driver’s license.
It is here in Oregon.
Even just a state ID - which is administered through the DMV. With the current address info on file the State mails us our voter registration cards and when the time comes our Voters Pamphlet to study and our ballots to mail in or drop in a conveniently located ballot box. It should be the National standard. That and one person, one vote. Period.
In many places, it is. But registering to vote isn't the same as becoming an educated voter. It's the effort to engage and educate voters that needs work, as Joyce's experience highlights.
It is in Maryland and many states.
This helps explain why the SCOTUS decision in Dobbs has been such a game-changer in some very surprising places. I was a little surprised at first, wondering "Didn't people know what was at stake, and that Supreme Court decisions can be overturned?" Well, no, and it wasn't hard to figure out why: for most women Roe had been "settled law" (whatever that means) their whole adult lives, and maybe their whole lives, period. The same goes for the sense of possibility that many of us had in the 1960s and '70s, before the Reagan reaction shut it down. We've got work to do!
I still hear that doctors are having to tell patients “Sorry, no, I can’t refer you to an abortion clinic, the law has changed.” How people can still not realize this is truly baffling to me, but then so is supporting 45, so 🤦♀️
These stupid legislators passing legislation restricting abortion when they hardly have any idea how pregnancy works. It's virtually impossible to fix stupid. Most people don't appreciate how politics impacts their lives until something happens to them or someone they love.
No kidding. And you're right, it's "virtually impossible to fix stupid," and given gerrymandering (and Fox "News") it's just as hard to keep it out of statehouses and Congress.
This suggests that those patients aren't aware of the general situation in their red states -- or that "politics" has anything to do with their personal lives. Arrgghh!
IF Hilary Clinton had won, and we had voted for HER, our Supreme Court would not be in the conservative mess it is in now. Hilary would never have appointed the conservative justices we have to put up with. Voting has consequences! NEVER forget and get informed! VOTE Blue!
Yes, Mimi! This is brilliant. You are brilliant. We all need to follow your example.
Talk to our kids. Talk to each other. Listen to our kids. Listen to each other.
We can no longer assume that everyone is watching David Muir or listening to NPR.
But with any luck, maybe we can follow your example in any, and every corner of our everyday lives.
Thank you for your wisdom. You must be a wonderful mother.
Lester Holt here! Yes we are Boomers.
You have such a cool name! :)
A religious door knocker was all about the "future of my soul" and when I asked if he VOTED...NO! Why not? The decisions we make NOW affect our future, here on earth! VOTE! Eternal life is another future to deal with.
We were just traveling thru The Netherlands, Germany & France. Eye opening in many ways, but realized just how ignorant most Americans are about history. Even young people we spoke to can explain what happened before, during & after WWII. In Germany, they start teaching about the Holocaust in 7th grade! We saw mostly young people touring the Anne Frank House. They can tell you just what happened to their countries because of fascism, ignorance, hatred & fear. They wondered how people here cannot see the danger we are in. It’s called willful ignorance. The dumbing down of our educational system. It’s our own fault for allowing it! We HAVE TO STOP IT! Speak out & educate everyone you can with FACTS!
That's the point. I've always believed "the dumbing down of America" was done on purpose and it eventually led to this. Facts are losing at this point. Ruth Ben-Ghiat says people don't see authoritarianism coming. Those people have their heads in the sand or are watching murdoch et al (including the WSJ and I still won't touch that (sorry if I offended anyone).
As a high school student in Wisconsin in 1984 we learned about WWII and the Holocaust first hand with a visit to Dachau Concentration Camp Memorial near Munich. We were studying German language and traveling for 2 weeks to learn about the country and its history. We crossed through Check Point Charlie into East Berlin, and walked near both sides of The Berlin Wall that separated West and East Berlin. It was an experience that lives with me to this day. And part of the reason that I am deeply interested in Politics and understanding what good government can do for citizens. Also the importance of the US on the world stage and how we should lead for peace.
I was blessed with an opportunity that so few young people have these days. People can read things in books, be shown videos, but there is nothing like walking the streets and experience life first hand to help you understand the impact and importance of learning history
Carol, I'm grateful you grew up in a district with a good educational foundation! We moved to the Sheboygan area 8 yrs ago from IL - the educational levels in our area seem less than...stellar. Just curious if you feel the commitment to your former school system is what it used to be.
Thank you for sharing!
This is the first Carol, DL. I grew up & lived most of my life in Illinois. I attended Catholic schools & public universities. American & World history were always covered & discussed. I actually did my college thesis about the Holocaust. I am not Jewish. I now live in Arizona & am mortified at the lack of basic education & almost complete lack of world knowledge. It is frightening. It also explains the choices made by so many uneducated voters here, of all ages.
Carol C., you gave me a scare that I'd responded to the wrong Carol (age, poor sight and coffee ineffectiveness can do that to you)!
Agree 100% on the state of current education, everywhere. It's insidious; generations not knowing what they've missed because they aren't aware it it.
On the flip side, Joyces' observation made me realize/appreciate how effective algorithms are in shaping perceptions of what's going on in the world, plus the resultant reactions.
DL,
After graduating with an engineering degree from a UW System college, I had a 30+ year career with a US based global manufacturer and moved to Illinois. I still have family roots in Wisconsin and am active on advisory boards at my Alma mater. I have been disappointed with what I have observed as a failure to fund the K-12 education properly to provide the same level of opportunity that was available during my formative years.
Like Carol C, I now live in AZ where I am appalled by the starvation of funding for public education. We are seeing the negative returns due to the lack of prioritizing funding for our public schools.
I think Gov Evers and Hobbs understand this, but the GOP control of the legislatures doesn't get it. It's sad.
When I arrived in Europe as a young 19-year-old Marine (in 1972!) I quickly learned the average French/German/Austrian graduate knew more about the U.S than many of my friends back home. I was in Europe last summer and the same is true. Very sobering. We really do have to figure out how to correct this problem.
One of my university students in intro US history wrote on a test that the Battle of the Bulge happened between England and Russia. Sigh.
I should add that in most of my intro US history classes, and this was a good Catholic university, about half my students had a good civics background - and about half did not know about the three branches of government (they thought the president was over the Congress), and did not know much about Senators and Representatives. They did not know about their respective terms and they did not know who their senators and representative were. After asking a bit, I learned that the biggest problem was moving in high school - it used to be they all had the same thing in high school and you could just switch a couple of courses to get it right - but now high schools can be radically different. Most had never had a course in the US before the Civil War (which they didn’t know much about anyway).
Thanks, Mimi!
Mimi Champlin, ask your daughter if her social media feed has people saying that they will not vote for anyone over forty. My granddaughter said thirty, and I had to remind her that Presidential candidates must be thirty five. She’s in her early twenties , and doesn’t realize that the “Don’t trust anyone over thirty” mantra was begun in the Sixties. It led to Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. Her high school doesn’t offer a Civics class. Nor did they cover past skimming over WWII in American History class. We are reaping the harvest of not teaching what makes the United States great.
Hi Rigel. My daughter doesn't use social media since, geez, probably four or five years ago? She reads blogs about photography and various physical challenges she deals with, does NYT games and downloads sci fi kindle books. She became disgusted with "people on the internet" quite a while ago.
She's not traditional in her group thought, actually, but overwhelmed in life by how much is going on at all times. The internet intensified that, so she cut it out and takes it in specific bites (bytes).
She's fast approaching 50. Just so you understand her context. Her grammar schools and high school were also different, as well as her college, so I cannot say that she was surrounded in the ways people usually are. lol Her early schools were Montessori and her high school was a private school in the mountains in California, very strict requirements for grade averages to stay, and her college was St John, a four year college that automatically has two majors and two minors (she even learned by requirement to speak and write Olde English as well as Attic Greek.) Extreme critical thinking was the result by dint of how they teach what they teach.
So, long story short, while she has always had friends in and out of school, they've been from families who wanted a more rounded education for their kids (I am not nor have ever been a "hippie" although I preceeded that by a bit, but I never much liked packs of anything....dogs....kids...."patriots"....)
The early years had a high emphasis on imagination mixed with discovering physical truths within that....example....look at the pictures of the ocean...now you draw them.....while you are drawing can you find the "C" shape in the pictures and put it somewhere in your drawing? (kindergarten and first grade).
I must also credit Sesame Street for her extreme early use of language and INCESSANT TALKING OMG IT'S A WONDER I SURVIVED (smiling and laughing).
I have to encase these descriptions with the fact that she was, is and always has been an absolutely average student with undiagnosed (until adulthood) adhd, so, not a whiz bang by any means. I could only afford her college and high school because #1 she won scholarships and at her high school she was a "legacy" so her dad having been there got her in, while she and I paid and worked for it. Her efforts, again, working for scholarships, paid for most of what I could not. She and I made a deal early on, I'd work my ass off in the world, she'd work her ass of in school. We both kept our promise. This is what *I* think of as the American Way. I didn't go to more than one semester of college due to social unrest and soldiers in the cafeteria of SF State before my first semester was credited. Family strife blew up any normal expectation of schooling so I went to work and did everything I could. Rarely had fewer than three jobs. This is where my views and experiences come from, just so you know who I am, a bit. I UTTERLY AGREE that the loss of history and civics in schools is a disaster. We need to correct that for everyone, ourselves included if we are also lacking! Thanks for listening. I sort of couldn't stop typing.
I did too, but with my son. Although he knows about Trump, Giuliani, etc., he is not inclined to vote blue because Democrats have a real problem with younger voters. They don't think the economy is any better. (Yes they are a privileged sort.) There is nothing for them in the next election. They aren't concerned about women's rights. They have looked at Gaza and hate that we are killing innocent civilians by supporting Israel. They just don't trust Biden or Trump or either party.
The approach of speaking out has not worked for me over the past several years. I’ve been sending articles, many from Substack posts, to my MAGA friends & family to no avail whatsoever. The response I get is lack of interest and/or the misinformation spouted by Fox News programs. I’ve been blocked by some on social media and even add relationships ended when I’ve discussed our current political situation and the threat to our democracy. I’ve about given up.
Honestly we can only do what we can do. I decided, for myself, I just won't give up. We all need breaks however!